Justin Fitzpatrick [00:00:00]: So I don't really worry about my competition because really nobody is copying what I do. Reginald Ferguson [00:00:05]: Welcome to the Fashion Geek podcast. The show that helps you learn more about men's fashion and get some tips to help you dress your best. Reg Ferguson [00:00:13]: This is Reg Ferguson, Reginald Ferguson [00:00:14]: fashion geek number one, and I'm a men's fashion consultant here in New York City, born and raised. My mission is to help you learn more about men's fashion so you can become fashion confident. Reg Ferguson [00:00:27]: Do you like shoes? Are you willing to spend a lot of money on shoes? What style do you like? A dress shoe, a casual shoe, lace ups, slip ons, boots? Do you only wear black shoes? Do you only like black shoes? Do you like suede? Have you ever bought a custom made to order shoe? My guess, Justin Fitzpatrick of J. Fitzpatrick Footwear is here on the show because he is the creator of his own shoe line. So if you buy a pair of his shoes, would you be fashion confused or would you be fashion confident? Reginald Ferguson [00:01:14]: Hey. If you ever found yourself staring at the closet, not knowing what to wear, or if the idea of shopping for clothes makes you feel physically ill, wait till the end of the show and I have something for you. But for now, let's get to the show. Reg Ferguson [00:01:29]: Yo. Today, we're gonna talk with Justin Fitzpatrick, who is the creator of J Fitzpatrick shoes. And we're gonna talk about something the everyday man should have an interest in. Why is this one of the best shoe brands in New York City and maybe beyond? Justin, what's up, man? Justin Fitzpatrick [00:01:52]: I don't think so. The kind words? Reg Ferguson [00:01:53]: Oh, no. Hey, I meant it. I'm not only an interviewer, I'm also a consumer. So, this is an unbiased interview. He knows that no money was exchanged. Well, no money was exchanged, but not back to me. So before we go into our topic, please tell us. So what do you do? So what do what do you do? Justin Fitzpatrick [00:02:31]: I do a lot of things. First and foremost, I I'm co well, I'm founder and co owner of J. FitzPatrick Footwear, my shoe brand here in New York City, where we offer classic welted shoes with a twist. As you can probably see by the colors in the background, the twists. I also write a shoe blog called the Shoe Snob blog, where I talk about the whole industry in well, the whole welted kind of industry and try to educate as much as I can the, the readers everything there is to know about high end welted shoes. Reg Ferguson [00:03:06]: To me, the term Goodyear welted has really been in the forefront for, let's say, at least the past ten years. Mhmm. Right? I mean, think about it. Before we were ever thought of, Goodyear was doing this. Yeah. But all of a sudden, it became a term, I think, particularly in the hashtag classic menswear crew that they jumped on it. And any shoe maker worth his or her salt, if they're marketing their product Mhmm. And they do that type of product, they lead with this is a weld tissue, this is Goodyear welted. Reg Ferguson [00:03:39]: Mhmm. How do you think that became such a a sexy term for something to me is so clunky, to be honest? Justin Fitzpatrick [00:03:47]: Well, I think there's varying degrees of Goodyear welted. There can be clunky ones, but there can also be really refined ones, say, like a Gaziano Guerlain that you don't look at that shoe and say that's clunky. You know, often, the word welted is attributed to quality. It goes through a lot more stages of production than your typical, cemented or Blake stitch shoe, which are far more rapid builds. And so I think with the rise of the Internet era and social media, people were able to understand and see what that word meant and be able to access far more shoes from that community of of manufacturers. Let's go back prior to Instagram and globalization. And if you're in let's just say you're in Seattle, Washington where I'm from. Right. Justin Fitzpatrick [00:04:49]: There are maybe three brands you could get who are Goodyear welted. There's Allen Edmonds, maybe Alden. There's a few places that sold Alden in Seattle. And then if you're lucky, department stores sold churches from England. Sure. That's it. Everything else was ruled by Italian makers. So nobody back then really knew what Goodyear welted was or meant, nor did they really care, to be honest. Justin Fitzpatrick [00:05:14]: They were happy with the made in Italy and comfort and flex all and all of that stuff. But then as the rise of Internet, social media, being able to buy a shoe halfway across the planet from your phone, people started to see what was really out there, not just what was accessible in their city, but what was accessible in the world. And they started to see that actually quality laid in the welted side of of shoe making, And so they wanted to, you know, achieve that. People normally wanna try to achieve the best they can at the best value they can. So this is what they sought after. And then as time progressed, there was a big bubble and a big trend, and the bubble was in Europe, but then it started to grow even further now down to Asia where there's a huge rise of manufacturing. And and instead of those new Asian manufacturers doing Blake shoes or or or cemented shoes. They're doing welded and next level hand welded. Justin Fitzpatrick [00:06:15]: So they're even skipping production lines and going straight to, single workmen single workmen kind of craftsmanship where actual people are putting the shoes together, not just machines, and for a very scary low price. Reg Ferguson [00:06:29]: For the people who don't really understand, can you explain, first of all, what welted or a Goodyear welted shoe means? And then the second point is or question, can you then make a comparison for the listeners and viewers between that and Blake's judging? Justin Fitzpatrick [00:06:45]: Sure. Try to show it with my hands because without something to show, it might be hard to conceptualize for those not familiar with manufacturing. But when you have a shoe let's just grab one. Yeah. When you have a shoe, you have its mold. Right? And you have the the the leather, which is called the upper. So when you put the upper onto the mold, and then you need to basically let's just for simple words, we need to close it. So we need to attach the upper and the mold and the sole. Justin Fitzpatrick [00:07:15]: So in a Blake stitch shoe, they wrap the leather around the mold and they put the sole on and they give it one stitch around Blake stitch. Shoes done, shoes made, it's very simple. It's often with a thin sole, it's very flexible, but it's a very simple construction. Now with Goodyear welted, so I think many people don't actually understand what Goodyear The Goodyear, welting is a is actually a machine that does the welting invented by, I believe it was Charles Goodyear who also did the tires. Right. Invented the machine to make the welt on a pair of shoes to stitch the welt to the upper and the insole. And so in a welted shoe, you got the upper. You wrap it around the mold, the the insoles on the bottom, and then instead of putting the sole on, you first put a strip of leather, another finer strip of leather, and you stitch that to the upper and the insole. Justin Fitzpatrick [00:08:16]: The insole is where your feet are touching, the leather on the on the on the inside of the shoe. And once you have the welts on, you then put the sole and you stitch the sole to the welt, and that's where you see the stitching here. And so you have a dual bond, and that dual bond allows for the sole to be easily replaced. It also creates a a point of, kind of like a a point where it's harder for water to get into the inside Reg Ferguson [00:08:46]: sole. Protection? Justin Fitzpatrick [00:08:47]: Yeah. It's like a an extra layer of protection. And at the same time, you just have more material from between your sole and your foot. And because you can easily replace this, it tends to last longer because it's not, you know, with the Blake stitch shoe, few people that replace Blake stitch. And once you go through that sole, it's almost a toasted shoe. And so with welted, you can just constantly keep resoling. As long as your welt stays intact, you just rip off the sole and put a new one. And then hand welted is the replacing of the Goodyear machine and doing it all by hand. Justin Fitzpatrick [00:09:23]: Right. Yeah. Reg Ferguson [00:09:24]: And you're saying where we have come to a point now that it seems like particularly overseas Justin Fitzpatrick [00:09:30]: Yeah. Reg Ferguson [00:09:30]: They're doing this at an amazing cost, which leads to high competition for someone like you. Justin Fitzpatrick [00:09:38]: Exactly. Yeah. In Asia where, you know, it's not a secret, wages are lower, cost of living is lower, they can get quality craftsmen to do it all by hand and often charge less than a European machine made shoe. You're in the game. Reg Ferguson [00:09:56]: You have a brand. How does that make you feel? Justin Fitzpatrick [00:09:59]: You know what? I've, it doesn't bother me because I've never been one to sulk over what somebody else is doing. I try to just do the best that I can do, and I offer my what makes me special, and I try to do that as much as I can, and I focus on that. So, you know, I can easily say nobody does the design that I do. And most people don't dare to copy it because in reality, I think it's scary to offer two tone shoes and think they're gonna sell off the shelf like a regular black shoe would. And so, some might say, well, that's a crazy business idea because, you know, in in business, you wanna make a profit and it the way you make profit is through high sell rates. But it's a lot harder to sell a two tone extravagant shoe than it is a black Oxford. Sure. Instead of more daring and a lot of people don't have the gumption to kinda mimic that. Justin Fitzpatrick [00:10:55]: They make safe shoes because safe shoes are easy to sell. So I don't really worry about my competition because really nobody is copying what I do. You know, people are seeking the a hand welded shoe for $400, I'm never gonna offer that. So I don't think I don't worry about that because I can never be what they want. You know, if they were looking the coolest design, then I can try to offer that. You know, and I make a good value for money for European made shoe. And that's why I focus on good customer service, and I don't worry about what other competitors are doing. In fact, I promote them all on my ShoesNow blog because at the end of the Reg Ferguson [00:11:31]: day I've seen that. Justin Fitzpatrick [00:11:32]: At the end of the day, there's enough people for us for us all to eat. Right. And we just gotta focus on doing the best we can. In reality, if we all helped each other, we'd all be we'd we'd grow the industry. That's true. My goal is really not to worry about those guys still in a shoe customer. It's me converting a sneaker wear into a dress shoe wear. So that's what I focus on. Reg Ferguson [00:11:53]: That's a good point. More men than ever before are wearing sneakers. Justin Fitzpatrick [00:11:59]: Mhmm. Reg Ferguson [00:12:00]: They're wearing sneakers with suits. We both have suits on for the listening audience. Yeah. How do you feel to me in my mind, I often tell people, so my late grandfather, classic menswear guy. Right? And to me, I have felt that classic menswear has made a slow slow decline, particularly in terms of suits from the fifties till now. I feel also parallel to that would be the wearing of shoes. Justin Fitzpatrick [00:12:28]: Mhmm. Reg Ferguson [00:12:28]: That not as many men wear a classic shoe or a boot the way they did back in the day. Mhmm. Is that also a competitive, you know, issue and force? Justin Fitzpatrick [00:12:41]: Yeah. It's definitely it's definitely challenging when your customer base kind of shrinks. And at the same time, there's more shoe brands than ever. So there's more competition and less clients. So that's why I try to focus on converting clients as opposed to fighting over the few clients that there still are. But, you know, that's how you diversify. I I've been offered a sneaker range for a long time now, like a classic sneaker range, not like a Nike type sneaker range. And I always feel like when you look at my bold collection, a lot of guys are afraid to jump right into that if they're new to shoes. Justin Fitzpatrick [00:13:24]: Sure. But they'll easily transition from the entry point line to that collection. But now I'm starting to see guys will transition from the sneakers to the entry point line. So it's now I just have, like, one more barrier to jump. But at least if I can get them into a classic sneaker, leather sneaker that's, you know, classic by nature, they then start thinking about, oh, well, let me try a suede loafer. And once they get into that suede loafer, let me try one of these, you know, two tone juice. And so, you know, I look at everything as a long game. You know? I'm not I'm not worried of okay every guy's wearing sneakers, but you know what? A lot of guys grow up. Justin Fitzpatrick [00:14:06]: And I start to realize what's what's funny is more than ever, I and and and I don't know where it comes from, but I've had guys that are retiring and they're like, I've been wearing sneakers my whole life and I wanna get into dress shoes and they start at our brand. And I'm just like, it's weird. These guys are like six years old And now getting into dress shoes and they're going gung ho with their retirement money. It's like, yeah. Great. It's worse than me. You love it. You know? And it's not the first time. Justin Fitzpatrick [00:14:37]: It's, and I'm also finding guys that are going from designer brands to classic shoes. I got a guy who just called me the other day, and he's like, yeah. I got Gucci this, Todd's that, Ferragamo this. But now he's coming to, you know, little old Jay Fitzpatrick looking in to get a more classic shoe. So I just think, it's just about long term education. And so everything goes in trends. This will all change eventually. I don't know when, but five, ten years, it won't be the same. Justin Fitzpatrick [00:15:09]: Maybe we won't even be wearing Nikes or dress shoes. Who knows what it'll be? But I try not to focus too much on the things that appear scary in the moment, and I just try to focus on continuing to do the best I can at educating and offering a cool product and great service. And hopefully, that conveys into word-of-mouth and people coming to the brand. Reg Ferguson [00:15:35]: A few years ago, you made a choice. You know, you were talking about transitions. How you're getting men now who maybe never wore shoes or not consistently, all of a sudden they're coming to you and then your value ladder, they move with it. Justin Fitzpatrick [00:15:53]: Mhmm. Reg Ferguson [00:15:54]: But a few years ago, you made a choice to create the JF line. Mhmm. Would you like to talk about that a little bit? Justin Fitzpatrick [00:16:02]: Yeah. Again, the J Fitzpatrick line, the line that I founded the brand with, the line that really is about offering welted shoes with a very strong personality twist, my personality, can be a hard pill to swallow for somebody new into shoes. You know, the designs are can be seen as extravagant to somebody not used to dress shoes. They can be seen as scary because, you know, for example, a a black shoe with a red saddle strap, you know. It's like that's a bold shoe for the average guy. They look at that and say, no way I could wear that. And so I knew that I needed to offer something more appealing to a newbie, so to speak. A guy getting out of college, getting into his first job, can't jump straight into a $500 shoe, needs something classic, doesn't wanna spend a ton of money, and and it'll be a nice transition piece for him because again, once a guy just gets into that world, he then goes back home, he starts googling, he starts searching, he starts getting curious, he starts reading, he starts studying, he starts seeing other guys wearing cool shoes and then they graduate to that line. Justin Fitzpatrick [00:17:19]: So again, it's all this long term and I knew I needed that. I needed that step in that, step that step to the boulder line. At the same time, I was reading, you know, a lot of guys would be like, other than, you know, Meermin, what do I buy at a low price point? Nobody there was no other competition to Meermin in the sense that guys that wanted to spend under 300 didn't really didn't really wanna go buy from Asia, so to speak, and a lot of the Asian brands weren't even really around five or six years ago or whatever. They've been popping off on the scene recently. A lot of guys would be like, where do I go? Just Allen Edmonds, but even Allen Edmonds was a higher price point. There's a lot of obscure European brands that the average guy didn't know about. So they were like, where do I go? There's just Meermin. Outside of Meermin, I gotta jump up to double the price. Justin Fitzpatrick [00:18:11]: Mhmm. And so I saw that, and I was like, well, let me try to offer a line that's, you know, I can't make it as cheap as Meermin. There's no way. But let me try to offer something not double, but maybe in a hundred dollars more that they could have another option for and then get them slowly into the J Fitzpatrick side. Reg Ferguson [00:18:30]: So I've been holding up the shoe as you brought it up as an example. Okay. And I mean, you're right. It's a bold it's a bold take on a classic shoe. Mhmm. What led you to make that type of decision when you created the overall brand? Hey, these are classics. Here's my spin. Justin Fitzpatrick [00:18:50]: You know, I grew up in a a very, urban culture where when I was young, you matched and you matched, you know, every color in your hat, you matched to the colors in your shoes Right. And the colors in your shirt. And they were often bold colors, you know, you don't you don't match as black. It's easy to wear black because black. But, you know, if you had you think of baseball caps and the colors in those, and then you had to wear the colors in the shoes. So I grew up wearing colorful stuff, obviously, not in the dress world, in the, you know, young, urban style of sneakers and hats and t shirts to match. And so I'd always liked colorful stuff to a degree. When I started working at Nordstrom, I was wearing banana yellow Prada loafers and blue patent Dolce and Gabbana loafers. Justin Fitzpatrick [00:19:43]: And so I was always kind of bold in it. Now when you when you wear that stuff, people react. You know, people would stop you in the street and say, wow. I like those shoes. Those are cool. You know? So I thought, you know, but when you just wore too classic, nobody stopped to notice. Nobody paid attention. And so when I went to learn shoe making, in Italy by Stefano Bemer, his kind of ethos was the same. Justin Fitzpatrick [00:20:12]: He had very beautiful classic shoes, but he had a very strong personality twist to all of them. And so my goal was to have my own company, you know, and you gotta think what kind of company do you wanna start. I was always into dressing, and I always loved shoes. Shoes were my first passion in the wardrobe. You know, growing up in America, you're probably from my same era. If you weren't wearing cool shoes, you couldn't be part of the cool crowd. Right. And that influences you when you're young. Justin Fitzpatrick [00:20:42]: You wanna have that latest Nike Absolutely. Because you wouldn't be you'd be nobody without it. Reg Ferguson [00:20:48]: I have talked about that. Yes. Justin Fitzpatrick [00:20:50]: And so I don't know what it's like today. I don't think so because I see people now wearing the shoes that you would have been clowned on wearing when we were in in our generation. You'll never be caught dead in a a six running shoe. Reg Ferguson [00:21:01]: Oh my god. Justin Fitzpatrick [00:21:02]: You know, you'd have been left out of the building. Reg Ferguson [00:21:04]: Right. Justin Fitzpatrick [00:21:04]: And so and so, you know, but then I would you know, as I got older, left high school, worked at Nordstrom, went to university, I started I wanna dress more maturely, more professionally. And I would just look I, you know, coming from Seattle, guys are wearing new balances with their suits. And I was just like, so embarrassing. Yeah. And we were just getting clowned on by Europeans. I would read the magazine. I would buy the European magazines, the ones that cost, like, triple the price. Yeah. Reg Ferguson [00:21:34]: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Justin Fitzpatrick [00:21:35]: I would buy those, and I would read those, and I would see all the beautiful stuff available in Europe. I would see them talking bad about American style. I would then look at American magazine and see the way the men were dressed. And then I would look at what we had on offer. I was like, there's a huge divide between what they wear and have in Europe and what we wear and have in The US, and I wanted to change that. He said, it's not that we don't have style, it's that we don't have good information because these magazines are just America's all about capitalism, so we've been just peddling whoever's paying us the most. We're not peddling the best advice in the big, you know, GQ magazine. They're peddling who's ever given them the most advertising money. Justin Fitzpatrick [00:22:15]: Mhmm. So I would see this the the the clothes they were putting the models together with, just terrible shoes, terrible clothes. And then I would read the European magazines, which on contrary, more about the style. It's a lot of that's changed now. Everybody's just pedaling Reg Ferguson [00:22:31]: the worst. Justin Fitzpatrick [00:22:32]: Pulling. Pulling for the money. Rob They didn't buy. They never took a chance on a small shoemaker that had amazing product. They would go to the big guy that could offer them the cheapest price and the safest product. Mhmm. And I said, this is the we we we can't do better if we don't have access to better. And again, this is before globalization, before Instagram. Justin Fitzpatrick [00:23:04]: You if you if you weren't rich enough to just hop on a plane and fly to London to buy shoes on German Street, you were subject to what you had at your local department store. Sure. And that was severely lacking in my opinion, so I wanted to change that. And I said, I'm gonna start a shoe line. And I chose the welted industry, which I knew was a challenging one. So I knew that in order to to make it, I had to I had to show the future clients I was a serious person. I mean, with all due respect, any non American looking at some American kid coming out with a shoe brand and this thing would just laugh at you if you had no real background. Reg Ferguson [00:23:49]: Right. Justin Fitzpatrick [00:23:49]: Pedigree. I knew I needed to have something that's nine that showed them I knew what I was doing and talking about. So so everything I need to learn, there is about shoes and shoe making. I can't have somebody making me look like a fool and pulling my card and not being able to respond because then I'd be looked at as a joke. So I said, let me go learn how to make shoes so I know the bait the foundation of shoes in general. And then after I do that, let me go figure out about manufacturing, about design, about last making, about this, about that, about everything that I could so I could become essentially an expert. That was the goal to then be able to start a line and be like, well, he might be young, but he's already done all of that. Reg Ferguson [00:24:32]: So you put in the time, you put in the work. Wow. Again, you wanted the pedigree. Justin Fitzpatrick [00:24:37]: Yeah. I needed to because my competitors at the time were Crockett, hundred hundred year old brands. And I'm like Yeah. Vultures brands. Started the brand in, like, '28 years old. So it's like, you know, I was young. And then it's like, how why why should we buy shoes from a 28 year old? You know? Reg Ferguson [00:24:54]: Well, I'm gonna give a personal story about this as I'm sure you recollect. So I think as I was toying with the idea to launch my brand, to launch my service, a coworker at the time, big shout out to Paul Buttonhall, took me to the style forum event, and I think maybe they'd had it for a bunch of years. I think I went two years. And then I I think the second time I went, they didn't do it anymore. Mhmm. And I met you at one of those events. In the Garment District. Right? Justin Fitzpatrick [00:25:31]: I remember that. Reg Ferguson [00:25:31]: At that penthouse. Yeah. And you were there. You had your table. Justin Fitzpatrick [00:25:35]: Yeah. Reg Ferguson [00:25:35]: I'm gonna I've never shared this with you. We've known each other a long time, and it took a took a bunch of years to do this. Yeah. Justin Fitzpatrick [00:25:42]: And Reg Ferguson [00:25:42]: I'm so happy to do it. I thought at the time that you were English. I totally did. Justin Fitzpatrick [00:25:49]: I probably had a little twinkle. Reg Ferguson [00:25:51]: You had a little lilt. Uh-huh. And you speak soft. Yeah. So he goes, oh, okay. And then, you know, Southern Dame, and you were breaking things down and I didn't purchase. Justin Fitzpatrick [00:26:00]: Mhmm. Reg Ferguson [00:26:01]: But I was very intrigued by you and interested in your story. And I was like, oh, okay. And I remember I, you know, shook your hands like, wow. Thank you so much for because you really it's what you said earlier. I think your task was anyone who stopped by, it wasn't just telling about your story. Mhmm. It was explaining about why you had these shoes and the value of the shoes. So and now, you know, here we are. Reg Ferguson [00:26:29]: Here we are. Yeah. You grew up on me, bro. Justin Fitzpatrick [00:26:32]: There we go. Reg Ferguson [00:26:37]: Alright. So you said something earlier, I wanna revisit it. You said no one is doing what I'm doing. I'm making bold choices. No one is stepping to me. I'm paraphrasing. I know. I'm I'm sorry. Justin Fitzpatrick [00:26:50]: Nobody's going to be shoes like me. There are other bold shoe makers, but they have their own unique styles. You know, Norman Veralta, for example, makes bold shoes in his own way. You know, he has his ideas. He's a great artist, and he puts them together with his mentality. But he's not doing button boots. So, you know, we've we fit into different aspects of the bold shoemakers. Tons of bold shoemakers in France that they just live on colors and two tones and etcetera. Justin Fitzpatrick [00:27:24]: But we all kinda have our little sectors within that, you know. I do button boots. Nobody else does button boots. Norman kinda created the trend of putting dress shoes with commando soles. Now a lot of people are doing that, but I remember Norman being among the first in this industry. Italian shoemakers have been doing this for years, but it wasn't a thing. Norman started doing on some beautiful tassel loafers, and that was different at the time. Reg Ferguson [00:27:51]: Yeah. Justin Fitzpatrick [00:27:51]: It was years ago with patina on them. It's like nobody had done that. So in the sense that when I don't worry about my competition is because nobody's doing the things I'm doing. You know, I take certain models and I run with them. I do a lot of butterfly loafers. Not a lot of brands do the butterfly loafers. They do penny loafers or tassel loafers. I do button boots. Justin Fitzpatrick [00:28:14]: I do hiking models, the interpretation of the alpine style. There are some of those around, but again, we all have our little twists on them. So not that I'm the only bold shoemaker. No. There's other bold shoemakers for sure. But, you know, again, I think we all I think we all we all know each other first and foremost. I think we all respect each other and our little side of the design portion, and we try not to step on each other's toes. Reg Ferguson [00:28:42]: When a client decides to ultimately step up and do a made to order purchase Mhmm. What does that what does that provide for that type of individual? You know, again, we talk about your ladder. Yeah. Let's say they start with the JF line, then they graduate, and then let's say, to me, two things. Made to order and your patina, Justin Fitzpatrick [00:29:10]: you Reg Ferguson [00:29:10]: know, option. Mhmm. What does that mean for a potential client who's listening and watching? Justin Fitzpatrick [00:29:16]: Yeah. I mean, in made to order and patina is you're really just being able to fulfill exact ideas you have and want to achieve that you can't find on a ready made basis. So when you start at JF, chances are you're getting a very basic classic shoe. And you graduate to J. Fitzpah and you're probably getting something a little bit more bold and unique. Now then when you go to made to order it's because probably you want to get a green shoe or a two tone shoe. Right. And I don't have the exact makeup as a ready made option, but that's what you want. Justin Fitzpatrick [00:29:48]: Maybe you wanna change the sole. Maybe you wanna change the shape. And then when you go into patina, then you're really going for, you know, all out. Reg Ferguson [00:29:54]: You go I was gonna say all out. Justin Fitzpatrick [00:29:56]: Now you want multi colors blended together in one shoe. And so it's really just, you know, you go up the ladder of detail, really. Detail mainly in design and and color options. Starts as basic, J. Fitzpacher gets a little bolder. May torter, you start to be able to choose your boldness, and then patina is, like, the ultimate of it. Reg Ferguson [00:30:20]: I wanna go back to the boots. I'm a big research guy. I have been told you're the only American brand that does a button boot. Uh-huh. Is that the case? Justin Fitzpatrick [00:30:33]: Yes. Yes. At the time when I launched them, there's only three brands in the world that offered them. Really? Yeah. There was me, Aversea. Sorry. There was Oh. Four, but there was four. Justin Fitzpatrick [00:30:47]: Me, Abrsy, Enzo Bonafe, and a Japanese brand called Perfetto that you could only get in Japan. So and for a brief time, they were sold in Paris, but that was only very brief. Now there's a few people that have offered some, but again, I think people try to do these things and they realize how hard it is, and then they take it out of their collection because, you know, I sell them because I made a name selling them. And then so people find us and come to us. I've been copied by tons of, like, Pakistan, Indian companies that sell them on eBay as replicas and all of that. Oh. And people learn the hard way when they buy those. But I think, you know, it takes confidence and investments to sell a button boot. Justin Fitzpatrick [00:31:32]: And and so I just a lot of people don't try to mimic it. So yeah, we're the only brand in all of The Americas, I think, that offer button boots. You can find a couple in Europe, and and that's about it. Reg Ferguson [00:31:46]: Why did you choose to wanna make a button boot? Justin Fitzpatrick [00:31:51]: I was always fascinated with the the idea of it. I loved how they dressed in the Victorian era. You know, it was for me the pinnacle of Do you mind if you wear. Yeah. Reg Ferguson [00:32:01]: I was like, you know Bull brummel. Justin Fitzpatrick [00:32:02]: They were all so sharp. And, and I like challenges, you know. Life is not meant to just kinda be in a straight line. I like to do things that are difficult and almost like test myself, see if I can pull it off. I understand that. So I thought, man, nobody's offering these, and the people that are very difficult to get. So let me see if I can modernize the button boot. I think to a degree I have, obviously. Justin Fitzpatrick [00:32:33]: It's I'm still a small brand in a big world, but I've sold thousands and thousands of button boots. So that's thousands of thousands of people wearing button boots. Reg Ferguson [00:32:43]: Can you describe a customer that buys a button boot? Justin Fitzpatrick [00:32:48]: Not really. I'm I've sold them to 20 year olds up to 70 year olds. Okay. Woah. Everything in between. So Reg Ferguson [00:32:55]: Really? Justin Fitzpatrick [00:32:56]: It's not, it's not there's no specific guy or or type. I've even sold them to ladies. So I think somebody that just appreciates something unique. I think, you know, a lot of people look to achieve something that nobody else has, and the button boot's a easy option for that. In most people's circles, you're not gonna find a a person you know that has one. And, yeah, I've sold them to all kinds. All kinds. Reg Ferguson [00:33:27]: Well, ladies and gentlemen who are listening, I have this one in my hand. It's a beautiful purple suede. I'm totally biased Justin Fitzpatrick [00:33:35]: Uh-huh. Reg Ferguson [00:33:35]: Because this is my brand color. Yeah. I mean, along with this leather and the French toe and the detailing I'm not saying I'm that guy, but I'm saying right now, I'm like, if I had a black tie event or if I was getting married not happening, ladies. Okay. I would see myself doing this. Justin Fitzpatrick [00:33:55]: Alright. And you'd be the slickest guy in the room too. Reg Ferguson [00:33:57]: Oh, yeah. Yeah. I'm already pretty slick. So let me just be adding on to the slickness. You also said this is hard to make. Why is this hard to make? Justin Fitzpatrick [00:34:09]: I mean it's not no it's not super hard to make. Reg Ferguson [00:34:13]: Oh, did I misunderstand you? Justin Fitzpatrick [00:34:14]: It might have been hard to to to sell. Hard to sell, hard to replicate because I think, I mean, it might be challenging to make. I remember when I first went to my factory and I was like, I wanna do button boots and they're like, we can't make those. Reg Ferguson [00:34:28]: They told you no. I did my research. They told you no. Justin Fitzpatrick [00:34:31]: Yeah. And I said, yes, you can. And they're like, no, we can't. And so I always do this where I, you know, I let somebody have their opinion, and then I'm like, okay. I'll revisit it. And so then some time goes by, and I said, okay. I wanna do button boots. And they're like, we can't make it. Justin Fitzpatrick [00:34:49]: I said, well, it's funny because if that brand can make it, then so can you. It's not impossible. Right? Well, no. It's not imposs oh, okay. So make it. Okay. We'll try. And then, of course, they made it. Justin Fitzpatrick [00:35:01]: I'm like, well, I guess you could in the end. Right? You know? So it's that it's cumbersome. And so a lot of factories, they don't like cumbersome. Factory likes a a four piece cap toe, the easiest shoe to make. It's where they wanna make shoes without having to think. This causes you to think. So Reg Ferguson [00:35:20]: Yeah. It's like I said, I mean, you know, I've never said to you, oh my gosh, this is really you know, I always look at them and go, but the purple Justin Fitzpatrick [00:35:30]: Yeah. Gives you a new perspective. And more to my point about when, you know, I wore bold shoes. If that was all black, you wouldn't think twice. Reg Ferguson [00:35:41]: No. I would not. Yeah. I would not. And I remember and I don't know if you still make that style of button boot. I remember you used to have like a like a herringbone wool. Is that correct? Justin Fitzpatrick [00:35:51]: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Still. Okay. Still do those. Yeah. Still have those available made to order. Reg Ferguson [00:35:57]: Okay. This is a very basic question for you, but it's something I've never thought of asking because I've never had this type of opportunity and access. Mhmm. Why do you decide to leave a model behind, so to speak? I have these Issaquas, which for people who aren't seeing, you know, and listening, this is a string tie loafer. Mhmm. It's a French toe. I really like it. Right? And I was at war today in tribute. Reg Ferguson [00:36:26]: But if I recall correctly, this is you've moved on from this. Justin Fitzpatrick [00:36:30]: Yeah. Which is one of my my more, regrets because I love that model. Mainly I move on from a model because lack of sales, but that was not the case for this. Reg Ferguson [00:36:43]: So what was the case for this? Justin Fitzpatrick [00:36:44]: Well, you're gonna understand as soon as I tell you. You see how the knot on the right shoe is not tight? Reg Ferguson [00:36:51]: Yes. Justin Fitzpatrick [00:36:51]: How many times have you had to retie that knot? Reg Ferguson [00:36:53]: I don't wear shoes a lot, meaning I have a really big rotation, but a few times, not a a hundred times, but a few. Yes. Justin Fitzpatrick [00:37:01]: So the braided string is hard to make a tight bow. Reg Ferguson [00:37:06]: Is that because it's waxed? Justin Fitzpatrick [00:37:07]: It's because it's thick leather and it does yeah. It's not waxed. It doesn't hold because of the thickness and it's braided. It's not meant to be really tied. That's a it's a shoe making thing. And so, if it was suede, it holds better. But in leather, it the the bow see how it's loose? Reg Ferguson [00:37:28]: Yeah. I know. I tightened it this morning before I left. Justin Fitzpatrick [00:37:30]: It's perfect. So the the problem was guys that buy the shoe, it would come undone and then they'd complain to me. And in extreme circumstances, the guys would pull it like they're unbreakable and break the tongue. And then blame me, and it's like, dude, is they're not shoelaces. Reg Ferguson [00:37:50]: Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. It's an adornment. Justin Fitzpatrick [00:37:52]: And I got tired of just having to be like Just blame. And they just automatically blame the shoemaker. It's like the staple. I did something wrong, but let me blame you. And I just said forget it. I can't keep having this problem. I can't keep writing to people explaining, look, don't pull them that way. You gotta learn how to tie a knot by just pulling the knot. Justin Fitzpatrick [00:38:14]: And it just became too much, and I just said forget it. I'm just gonna turn these into regular tassel loafers. Oh. And it's a shame because I love that shit. Reg Ferguson [00:38:22]: I do too. That's that's the reason why I I bought it. Justin Fitzpatrick [00:38:25]: It's 10 times more special than the plain tassel version, but, you know, and I always thought maybe I can, you know, how do you keep that bow where I super glue it together? It's like, how do you keep it tight on a production level? And it's very challenging. You either stick like a pin, super glue, I don't know, but it just became too much and I thought, you know, maybe I'll revisit it in the future, but it just became Yeah. Yeah. More than I could handle with too many people complaining. I just I can't deal with that. Right. I don't have to retire. I had to swap it. Reg Ferguson [00:38:59]: Well, I'm I'm glad now. I feel like Justin Fitzpatrick [00:39:01]: Oh, you got unique piece now. Reg Ferguson [00:39:03]: Yeah. Well, I am a unique piece. So There you go. Fitting. What is museum calf? You used to I would see that as a description for your shoes. Justin Fitzpatrick [00:39:16]: Museum Calf is, it was Reg Ferguson [00:39:19]: And you moved on from that too. Justin Fitzpatrick [00:39:21]: I'm moving on. Yeah. Very strong. Soon, I will no longer offer it on on ready made shoes. Museum calf was a a term coined by John Lobb. Oh. So the actual name for it and the tannery is called Radica and it was created by Ichea, an Italian tannery. And what they did was find a way to make a shoe look patina or antiqued but in the tanning process as opposed to by a patina artist. Justin Fitzpatrick [00:39:57]: So they they managed to, make on a production level patina looking style shoes. Wow. And so John Lobb was like the first to really popularize that, and they called it museum cap. I presume something that would have naturally aged in a museum, and that's why they probably called it that. Oh. Reg Ferguson [00:40:19]: Like, you know, Justin Fitzpatrick [00:40:20]: natural patina is how something ages through Light. Light light. Yeah. Light. Light. It creates its own unique look. And so John Love popularized it, and then more tanneries started copying it, and then more brands started buying it. And yeah. Justin Fitzpatrick [00:40:42]: And so it's a museum cap. Reg Ferguson [00:40:44]: And why are you moving on from it? Justin Fitzpatrick [00:40:46]: There are, a lot has changed since COVID, and there are only about three or four reputable tanneries that make it. There's really only two in my mind, and then there's two that I don't really care for. Right. One, my factory really no longer has a relationship with. And the other, which I actually prefer, they're just too small and they take way too long to produce. And because of COVID payment structures have changed, tanneries now on upfront payments. They don't hold a stock. So once you pay them, they make your stock. Justin Fitzpatrick [00:41:31]: However, that can take four or five months and then shoe product. It's like a it's like a eight month process just to get the shoes now. And I said it's too much. So I just said, it's too many headaches involved with museum calf. I tried out the other tanneries. I didn't like the quality. So I just said, you know, forget this. I'm I'm through with it. Justin Fitzpatrick [00:41:51]: Mhmm. Yeah. Reg Ferguson [00:41:52]: What is the normal turnaround for a shoe being made? I mean, a standard shoe meaning not made to order. Justin Fitzpatrick [00:42:00]: I mean, made to order and a standard shoe is really the same. At least at my factory, it should be different but just the way it goes. Normal European production can be anywhere from four to six months. Wow. Yeah. Some smarter factories will do made to orders faster in, you know, eight to ten weeks. I can't convince my factory to make that switch. They're just like, no. Justin Fitzpatrick [00:42:26]: Production time is the same no matter what it is. Right. Yeah. They're big. You see, the bigger you are, the more you hate made to order because it doesn't flow in your production. Reg Ferguson [00:42:36]: More steps. Justin Fitzpatrick [00:42:37]: Yes. More steps, you know, more steps equals less efficiency. Right. And, you know, their ideal dream order is a thousand pair of black shoes in the same model. Right. That's the Right. Give me that and they're happy. Right. Justin Fitzpatrick [00:42:51]: You know, give me 20 made to orders. They're like, boom. Right. So but tanneries that are wising up to the future have their own little made to order departments and then, you know, push it through a different way. Sadly, I haven't convinced my factory of that import the importance of that yet. Hopefully, they'll wise up soon. Reg Ferguson [00:43:11]: You've made so many different styles. Justin Fitzpatrick [00:43:15]: Uh-huh. Reg Ferguson [00:43:16]: So this is gonna be a tough question. What's your favorite? What's your least favorite of all the experiences, all the things you've tried, messed around with, work, didn't work? Justin Fitzpatrick [00:43:27]: I mean, my favorite is the saddle shoe on the table. Reg Ferguson [00:43:30]: And why is that? Justin Fitzpatrick [00:43:31]: It holds the most emotional value. It's the one that really captured me when I was at so that shoes that specific shoe on the table that you're probably looking at, I made by hands and that pattern is Stefano Bemmers, so I made that when I was apprenticing and then I made my own version and ready to wear changing the lines and whatnot. So that shoe really influenced me as a designer and I felt like it captured me as a person and my personality. So it's always held a special place, I always love the saddle strap, I love it as well for design purposes, the break up of three pieces, so you can have a back piece and a front piece with one material and the saddle as a contrasting material. So to me, it's a perfect pattern for two tones. My favorite shoe that I wear the most is the butterfly loafer. Reg Ferguson [00:44:27]: Yeah. We didn't get to we didn't have one, so I didn't wanna throw it in the midst. I'm like So the put their foot there so they can so they can shoot it. Justin Fitzpatrick [00:44:35]: The butterfly loafer, I wear more than any other shoe. Reg Ferguson [00:44:39]: Yeah. I've kinda know I mean, I don't check you like that all the time. But, yeah, you do seem to lean Justin Fitzpatrick [00:44:45]: I I I think what's that? It might sound crazy, but I probably have around 30 butterfly loafers just as in that model. 30 color variations. Reg Ferguson [00:44:56]: Oh my god. Yeah. That's my go to. Alright. What was something that you tried that really just didn't work? You were like Justin Fitzpatrick [00:45:05]: I mean Reg Ferguson [00:45:06]: Or the, you know, the market didn't gravitate towards it. Justin Fitzpatrick [00:45:10]: Let me think. It's weird because throughout my history as a brand, I've had like the hardest time. It's kinda changing, but in the beginning, I had the hardest time selling like just classic brown suede shoes, which is crazy. Reg Ferguson [00:45:25]: Brown suede shoes? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I have two pairs of brown suede shoes. Justin Fitzpatrick [00:45:29]: And and but I think and I and I was always Reg Ferguson [00:45:31]: When I have a boot in the shoe. Justin Fitzpatrick [00:45:32]: And I had a really hard time selling chukkas. And it Chukkas? All of this only made sense when I introduced the JF line. So as a J Fitzpatrick only brand prior to the JF's existence, I couldn't sell chukkas and brown suede shoes to sell my life. And I started to just like it's like these are two very common models. Yeah. So then I introduced the JF line, and I started selling brown suede and chukkas. And I realized, first and foremost, every brand in the world has truckers and brown suede boots. Yes. Justin Fitzpatrick [00:46:04]: Guys didn't come to J Fitzpatrick line for those two common things. Guys came for two tones, button boots, pop butterfly loafers, etcetera. Enters the JF line, I saw a brown suede all day and my chukka boots are among the most popular. So I realized at the same time, those models are going to newbies, guys that don't have their bases all filled yet. Reg Ferguson [00:46:33]: Right. The foundation. Justin Fitzpatrick [00:46:34]: And also guys that don't wanna spend a ton of money on a on a basic common shoe. So I was always baffled by that in the beginning, but then I finally understood why. So the market rejected it when I was only a bold brand. But now that I offer a non bold lower price point, now I sell those two things. So bizarre. But if I introduce them into the J. FitzPatrick line, they won't sell. And I tested this with my tassel loafers too. Justin Fitzpatrick [00:47:06]: I introduced tassel loafers on both lines. Right. I nearly sold out of all of my shoes and all of the colors in the JF line while I barely sold any in the JF's Patrick line. So, again, I started to understand why people gravitate towards certain models and different lines and price points. So Reg Ferguson [00:47:26]: Kudos to you, but utterly fascinating. Right? Yeah. Alright. Lightning round. Why is fashion important? Justin Fitzpatrick [00:47:38]: I mean, I would say I don't like to wear fashion, but I think style is important because I think it's a form of, you know, not only self respect, but community respect. I think the way you portray yourself is important. Unfortunately, we are all ego creatures and we all judge people by first appearances. It's the way we are as human beings. Reg Ferguson [00:48:04]: Exactly. Justin Fitzpatrick [00:48:04]: And I think the more you convey that you're a respectable human being, the better for society as a whole. I think also you feel better when when you're when you're stylish, you feel better. You're never gonna be super motivated in sweatpants and running shoes and a t shirt. Reg Ferguson [00:48:26]: It just Justin Fitzpatrick [00:48:27]: you're not in the mind. Reg Ferguson [00:48:28]: Bed that intern is wearing that. Justin Fitzpatrick [00:48:30]: But Well, right now they're doing work that requires comfort so to speak, but, you know, if you're in the mindset of being business minded, you need to match that in your style as well, you know. Business is not sweatpants. So I think style is important. I I I think it it affects us psychologically that most people just don't understand. They they'll feel it but they can't realize that it's happening. Right. You know? They can't articulate it. Yeah. Justin Fitzpatrick [00:48:59]: So but, you know, right now, the whole world's sold on comfort and being you and da da da da and all this other stuff. But, you Reg Ferguson [00:49:07]: know People People don't understand. I explain this to potential clients. I am amazingly comfortable right now Yeah. In my suit. Justin Fitzpatrick [00:49:14]: Yeah. Reg Ferguson [00:49:15]: Like, the fact that people now are making some type of equivalence that this means you're uncomfortable. Because they don't know what real fit Justin Fitzpatrick [00:49:23]: is. And, you know, when I travel, I don't and I never travel in sweatpants and athletic shoes and a shirt. I wear a jacket, a button up. I might wear jeans I wear a jean. Yeah. Yeah. But I'll wear my butterfly loafers. And you know what? I smooth right through immigration. Justin Fitzpatrick [00:49:46]: You know? But so yeah. Reg Ferguson [00:49:50]: What difference has fashion made in your life? Justin Fitzpatrick [00:49:57]: I mean, I don't know. Other than, like I said, you know, bombing through immigration, I don't know if it makes a huge difference because I've always been in that. So it's hard it's never like I wasn't in that. So I don't know what it's like, for example, we launched the store right when COVID hit, so I don't know a New York prior to COVID. I don't know a world in my own existence prior to being stylish because I always tried to achieve that since, you know, I was seven. Everyone or 10 or whatever. Prior to that, you didn't think about those types of things. Right. Justin Fitzpatrick [00:50:34]: Yeah. So I don't I don't really know how it's affected my life because it's always been there in my life. So I don't know the Reg Ferguson [00:50:43]: That's fair. Justin Fitzpatrick [00:50:43]: Opposite of that. Reg Ferguson [00:50:44]: That's fair. Yeah. What's the top fashion tip you would give the everyday man so he could look his best? Justin Fitzpatrick [00:50:53]: Top shoes so he could look his best. I mean, I think guys just have to not be afraid to try. Again, I think you just start subtle. It's a lot of times, like, my wife's like, what should I wear? I'm like, it's not that difficult. You can still look good in some jeans and a shirt and nice shoes. When you're trying to to overdo it, you often mess yourself up and then you just don't start because you're already psyching yourself out. So it's like start slow, wear something that looks good, feels good, but don't try to overdo it because then you might not even start because you're like, oh, this is too much. And so a lot of times for me, I look at guys that look great. Justin Fitzpatrick [00:51:40]: It can just be, again, a pair of jeans. It doesn't have to be slacks all day long. Start with basics, You move from there. You'll feel good because you'll look good. And and it doesn't have to be a suit in a pocket square. Right. No. It doesn't have to be that. Justin Fitzpatrick [00:51:55]: It can be that. Reg Ferguson [00:51:56]: Right. Justin Fitzpatrick [00:51:56]: But it doesn't have to be that. Exactly. And that's the problem. And if they feel like, oh, it has to be that, then they don't even try. Reg Ferguson [00:52:02]: Right. Justin Fitzpatrick [00:52:02]: Yeah. And that's the problem. They psych themselves out. Reg Ferguson [00:52:04]: They psych yeah. They can't they can't even get out the gate. Yeah. So This is what I asked all of my guests, Justin. What does the phrase always be fly mean to you? Always be fly. I think it's self explanatory. I agree, but Justin Fitzpatrick [00:52:20]: It means, you know, always attempting to look your best again. I think that dressing nice is most importantly a a manner of not only self respect, but respect for others. So, I always try to be fly just for that. You know, I care about how I portray myself, not because I'm worried about what other people think, but I see it as a side of respect. And, so I'm always trying to be fly even if it's, you know, subtle flyness, you know. Nothing crazy, but always, you know, iron my clothes, keeping my stuff put together, well put together. And again, I think it all boils down to respect and feeling good, you know, subconsciously without knowing it. I agree. Reg Ferguson [00:53:07]: Justin, this was years ago. Yes, sir. Really proud to represent the brand. As you know, I've brought clients here, and I'm actually bringing a client here right after we do this. Justin Fitzpatrick [00:53:22]: Sounds like a plan. Reg Ferguson [00:53:24]: So I really appreciate that. Justin Fitzpatrick [00:53:25]: Oh, thank you. Likewise. Appreciate it. Reg Ferguson [00:53:29]: So you learn from Justin the difference between a Blake stitch shoe and a Goodyear welted shoe. You also learn how competitive the marketplace is. You can find Justin Fitzpatrick on Instagram at jfitzpatrick footwear or the shoe snob official or on the web at jfitzpatrickfootwear.com or theshoesnobblog.com. If you wanna level up your shoe game, then let's make it happen. Take initiative and become fashion confident in thirty days. All you have to do is email me at regnyfashiondeep dot com for a consultation. Reginald Ferguson [00:54:15]: Well, that's a wrap. Thank Reg Ferguson [00:54:16]: you so much for listening. We hope you had fun and are down for another one. Please tell a friend who could use some fashion help about the podcast or share an episode with them directly. If you enjoy the show, please give us a rating and review on Apple Podcast. Lastly, if you constantly struggle putting an outfit together and are looking to turn that confusion into confidence, I'd love to talk about how we can improve with it. Check me out at n y fashion geek dot com, and email me at reg@nyfashiongeek.com for a consultation. A special shout goes to our producer, Serge, and everyone down with the Fashion Week Podcast. If you have a story suggestion, you can email me at podcast@nyfashiongeek.com or hit me up on the Insta at New York Fashion Geek. Reginald Ferguson [00:55:07]: Well, that's a wrap. To my team of interns, past and present, who have helped make the Fashion Geek podcast what it is today, I thank you. Always be fly.